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dunken

Build up of money on the ladder

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Hi everyone,

Is there a video showing the build up of money or weight of money to determine a safe entry? If there is ,please could you direct me to that section? I have watched Tomas' vidoes and one aspect I would like to develop is a safe entry.For e.g safe entry based on weight of money to get out with one tick profit.

Often I enter teh market thinking there's a lot of money at the price I am entering, but it goes the other way and I have to exit for a loss.

any advice would be welcome

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As Tom said, for me in some situations the weight of money doesn't mean a lot, it may just be someone wanting the market to go in their direction(spoofers). As I work with high odds in some cases the graph is upward the weight of money makes the market move, but it always disappears.  

My main indicator is aggression on a particular price, If the aggression on a particular price is too large no matter the weight of the money I go along with them to take one tick or two or a swing.

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5 hours ago, dunken said:

@Vinicius ,Thank you.Do you follow sertian indicators to get an idea  how you think the aggression is going to lead the price?

with my apologies for these very basic questions @Tomas

 

 

A good example of spoofers can be seen in the first image. Notice the large amount of fake  money trying to take the price down, but the aggression was still in the price 11.5 and nothing to be traded at 11. In image 2 all money disappears and the price rises to 14.

 

Before entering any operation observe the facts, Look at the time that is lacking for the race to start, which the Betfair graph can inform you about resistance and support points, trends and mainly for me if there is aggression to move the price.

1946205080_dinheirospof.JPG.1d761272c61e17a1e5e196071e477a6f.JPG   150939179_dinheirospoof2.JPG.b255fd0338d33d32e5928d18974c8fe1.JPG

 

 

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Hi Dunken

When I first started trading I had the same problem - I thought my entry was good, but the market often went against me. Now I have a better 'feel' for the markets it doesn't happen so often.

On 3/26/2019 at 8:07 PM, Vinicius said:

My main indicator is aggression on a particular price, If the aggression on a particular price is too large no matter the weight of the money I go along with them to take one tick or two or a swing.

Totally agree. I'm learning to 'trade order flow'  - how is money flowing (being matched) at the back and lay prices? A really good quote I read on a blog somewhere (sorry, I forgot exactly where...)

"Trade what you can see, not what you want to see"

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19 minutes ago, dunken said:

Hi everyone,

Is there a video showing the build up of money or weight of money to determine a safe entry? If there is ,please could you direct me to that section? I have watched Tomas' vidoes and one aspect I would like to develop is a safe entry.For e.g safe entry based on weight of money to get out with one tick profit.

Often I enter teh market thinking there's a lot of money at the price I am entering, but it goes the other way and I have to exit for a loss.

any advice would be welcome

These days, the weight of money is tricky. I barely watch this indicator. It was a good indicator in the early days of Betfair but now, the market is often full of spoofers and it's hard to recognize what is genuine vs fake money. I often determine my safe entry from the Betfair graph and from the amount of money traded on a particular price or just by price action of what amounts of money are entering the market. Hope this helps.

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1 hour ago, Tomas said:

These days, the weight of money is tricky. I barely watch this indicator. It was a good indicator in the early days of Betfair but now, the market is often full of spoofers and it's hard to recognize what is genuine vs fake money. I often determine my safe entry from the Betfair graph and from the amount of money traded on a particular price or just by price action of what amounts of money are entering the market. Hope this helps.

Thank you for your reply and adding links in your post @Tomas . It is appreciated.

I think I'll try to record the ladders to get an idea.

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25 minutes ago, Vinicius said:


 

As Tom said, for me in some situations the weight of money doesn't mean a lot, it may just be someone wanting the market to go in their direction(spoofers). As I work with high odds in some cases the graph is upward the weight of money makes the market move, but it always disappears.  

My main indicator is aggression on a particular price, If the aggression on a particular price is too large no matter the weight of the money I go along with them to take one tick or two or a swing.

@Vinicius ,Thank you.Do you follow sertian indicators to get an idea  how you think the aggression is going to lead the price?

with my apologies for these very basic questions @Tomas

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15 minutes ago, dunken said:

@Vinicius ,Thank you.Do you follow sertian indicators to get an idea  how you think the aggression is going to lead the price?

with my apologies for these very basic questions @Tomas

No worries, all questions need to be answered.

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“Sports Trading Exposed” is now FREE & OPEN SOURCE! The most comprehensive, in-depth online sports trading guide ever written.

“After more than 10 years of full-time sports trading that put me in the top 1/2 per cent of the most successful career earners on Betfair, I’m exposing EVERYTHING I’ve learned!  I’ll provide you with all the tools you need to substantially decrease your risk and exponentially maximize your earning potential!”

Click to read it now!

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5 hours ago, Vinicius said:

 

 

A good example of spoofers can be seen in the first image. Notice the large amount of fake  money trying to take the price down, but the aggression was still in the price 11.5 and nothing to be traded at 11. In image 2 all money disappears and the price rises to 14.

 

Before entering any operation observe the facts, Look at the time that is lacking for the race to start, which the Betfair graph can inform you about resistance and support points, trends and mainly for me if there is aggression to move the price.

1946205080_dinheirospof.JPG.1d761272c61e17a1e5e196071e477a6f.JPG   150939179_dinheirospoof2.JPG.b255fd0338d33d32e5928d18974c8fe1.JPG

 

 

@Vinicius, Thank you for that detailed reply and screenshots, it is appreciated. As you have backed at 11.5 and the price has started to drift, did you exit with a small loss or did you wait?

Was this trade in the last 5 minutes or so before the race started or much earlier?

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2 hours ago, dunken said:

@Vinicius, Thank you for that detailed reply and screenshots, it is appreciated. As you have backed at 11.5 and the price has started to drift, did you exit with a small loss or did you wait?

Was this trade in the last 5 minutes or so before the race started or much earlier?

 

These images were not of an operation made by me, it is a video of a trader called Bickat of portugal.

I only enter the operation missing 5 minutes or less to start the race except in big events like Cheltenham where the liquidity is high and you can leave quite easily

Edited by Vinicius
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the only problem with this video is that it is 9 years old (2010) and published in 2013. Bf has a cross matching algorithm which improved a lot in recent years. And that distorted the shape of WOM. By my observation there are more lay money in the markets than used to be. One thing that is for sure is that the amount of canceled bets increased a lot. And I will account that partly to Xmaching and partly to traders that play by the rules of the new environment. I don't know whether those techniques works so well nowadays as they used to in 2010 but they looked interesting to me as I do not trade so far away from the favorite. And recently bf encouraged trading at bigger odds by decreasing the stake size up there and adjusting it to 10 pounds liability. Basically 10p at 100 is a valid bet now. But it used to be 2pounds from 1.01 to 1000.

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